April 17, No42 v JG1l Final Mission

We are going to have all of our Pup escorts protecting 2x DH4s to start with. If used to full advantage, those 2x DH4s could conceivably kill all of the guns, which means we could put more effort into killing the enemy's machines.

In order to stay tight, we will start the majority of the No.42 on one end of the battlefield and work toward the other, and put a token force on the other end to harry the hun.

Because of the map being compressed for this final battle (orange lines are borders of ground action), our bombers will be out of the bases that the pups and spads are from, 2 each. Likewise, the hun wil have their bombers closer to the lines as well, from their base just NW from Lille and from 19B-4.

We need a fighting force, an escorted bombing force, and a scout force to find out where they are operating. Once we know that we can more easily distribute our assets to match or overmatch the enemy. We cannot wait long however, or the tanks and guns will have a long time to work on each other and we will not control the battle, so the scouts cannot be very far ahead of the striking forces.

From each base, I need a singlton for scouting. I will take the north and scout in a pup, and need a volunteer to take a spad in the south to do the same. These scouts are looking for concentrations of the enemy, or single bombers ingressing low. Do not engage, but only call in those sightings so that Flight leads can vector their forces accordingly.

Since escort is going to be essential, we will have Red and Blue flight leads controlling the action once the mission starts. Scouts report to Flight leads, who then direct their bomber and escorts.

Let us know if you will be there and get on the list so Flight Leads can plan their flights! Looking a little thin so far...

Red
Rooster
Hawg
Bandy
Skeetr

Blue
NavyJake
Awde
Shnoze
BigFred

Green
Space (scout for Blue)
Lexx
Zed
Flatspin (scout for Red sector A)
stubby14

North
Immediately begin ground operations in north part of the map.
Scout- Space
Pup escorts- Blue flight
1x DH4- ?
1x DH4 held in reserve for later

South
1 element to support ground operations in the north and 1 element to hunt germans.
Scout- ?
Spad attacks- Red Flight
1x DH4- ?
1x DH4 held in reserve for later



Butzell's map for Finali

Run the Spads up one access lane to hunt the enemy bombers/fighters and then free to hunt on their turf..

Run the n17s and dh4's in a pack down the other access lane and hunt the Hun invaders. Use the n17's to take out the enemy with the dh4's taking out enemy bombers when vulnerable or stay out of fight flying perimeter to let gunners have a shot (have them on long range and fly above).

When done continue on to complete the missions required

Send two dh4's or re8's to do the arty spot and continue with bombs to back up the n17/dh4 targets or take out train convoy

Have each aircraft to deal with two sections to search in last hour to find the convoy/ train.

My 2 cents. Oh sorry we have banned the penny here. My .05 cents

Well the idea of a lone scout flying the RR tracks at tree top level going after the train is something to consider. A pup fly's slow enough to hold closely to the contour of the landscape and yet fast enough to cover all the tracks in the combat zone on a tank of gas. The pup can easily take out the engine. The chances of a lone pup flying that low and being spotted are almost nil. There is also a better chance of the pup spotting the rolling stock than there was of our flights in the last game.

Analyzing the sweeps of Blue flight here are a few problems that the lone pup patrol would fix.

A lot of time and effort had to be spent keeping together. While we tried to remain constantly vigilant to the ground we were patrolling too much of our time was spent keeping together. Investigating initiative was somewhat held in check and reactions to ground fire and confusion in possible air contacts disrupted the flight and caused even more attention to devoted away from the ground to reforming. As an example I found myself under fire from a lone AAA gun in a big empty field. My evasives and attempt to investigate caused a need to regroup. I thought I saw another lone object in a nearby field as well but did not have the linger time available to relocate it or figure out why that gun was there. We could have missed the trucks at that point or any other because of these problems.

We had to patrol at a vulnerable altitude. We were high enough to likely be spotted, and it would have likely been by a higher enemy. We were low enough to be very vulnerable to AAA and after seeing a few close calls by myself and other flight members it's a wonder we made it back with an intact flight.

Ultimately the contributions of 4 pups towards the goals of the mission was finding the train, then loitering over it until 2 bombers came in to kill it, with the loss of one bomber. The risk of a single pup with a much greater chance of accomplishing the mission is a much better use of resources.

Slightly different scenario guys- the only targets of any kind in the final mission are tanks and artillery. The whole object of taking out targets for the last several weeks was to reduce the amount of armor that they can throw across the lines, and we, them.

This is the culmination of all that the tourney has been to this point, and the winner of this last mission is the victor in this mini-campaign.

The last mission is dedicated to the ground battle that we have built up to, and everything must be planned in regards to the single goal of getting more of out armor across the mud than the bad guys get.

S!

I'm in!

S!

Understood Space.

Are any of these tanks the kind that have AAA abilities? If so, and we have aircraft that can dive bomb, I'd recommend this approach.

(Are the tanks from each side going to be crossing at the same place? And if so, can we assume they will be fighting each other? Also do we know the exact number of tanks and guns each side has?) Suspect answers to these is yes

Is the artillery something we bomb or is it taken out with spotting missions?


It really looks like this is going to focus both sides in to the same area. This will result in the loss of pilots early on. I think the battle of pilot attrition will determine the game. I'd expect the side that starts with the most bombers flying to lose.

We need a plan to break up their groups and overwhelm. Spad hit and runs followed closely by turn and burn planes pouncing on separated aircraft.

Just my 2cent. (Um since we haven't banned the penny.)

they will be in large groups of Albys with at least one or two stingers flying high cover
the high guys are the one the spads need to engage

That's going to be the hardest part. They have dual spandau albies that can crank very well in the dirt, and I think kill the armor and arty with their guns. Messages out to Butzell; stand by.

You guys in the pups should be able to tear them up and we can cover you from above.
I am guessing this is going to be a giant mosh pit/grand finale, that throws both groups into conflict in a central location.

We let the bombers go in low, the pups at about 2-3k and the spad's 4-5k.

The spads take on their 2 seaters if we spot them, otherwise cover the formation and try to engage and draw them off.

S!

The Hun two-seaters will be on the deck.

I'm IN

Space is there any way to tell where the hun tanks are coming from?
where our own tanks will be attacking?
are the tanks in one large mass or small groups spread along the front?

once all tanks are dead the game is won?

I have put these questions to Butzell yesterday so that we can know all that is knowable. With luck I will have answeres today and will post that information here.

Just in from JG1_Butzell:

Will post map and description soon. Tanks can not be killed by bullets. Guns can be killed by bullets but German plane will be defending. Better use bombs. Only bombers bomb. you only get 4 bombers. Germans only get 4 bombers. 20 tanks vs 16 guns. German guns will kill 8 tanks over the whole battle time if they are not stopped. The question is, How many guns can the Entente kill and how many tanks can the german planes kill. I think it is easier to kill tanks than guns. Numbers and score is skewed to Entente to create a balance of acheivement. Victory conditions are based on how many tanks make it accross the lines.

Have spread out guns and tanks so we do not get a giant fur ball, last man standing battle. The trick is finding that balance between offence and defence.

Since we only get 4 bombers, I suggest only 1 at a time be committed.










...There's no reason for all our bomber pilots to be in the asylum at once.

If it is possible (NavyJake?) can we get a quick little practice map going with some tanks? I have yet to blast on those and think we could use a little exposure before the final battle.

Space,

I mofified a No Ai mission and made No_Ai_No42_Tank_Training, all Hun tanks start at the Hun Tank factory. The tanks don't respawn, but there are about 10-12 so plenty of targets. If needed just reload the mission.

All that needs to be done is load the misson.

My thoughts would be to set a password and use this map on Monday for training, but that would be the TOs call.

S!

Dude, killer!
How do I change the map? Afraid I have neglected to learn that to this point.
If you can make that available on our server today, I/we can enter the server and then have it in our cache.

Will do.

About 5 minutes, password will be 42jg1

S!

Got it... Thanks Navy!

yes practice server would be awesome for me
navy can you make the server reset once all objects are destroyed?

I have already been practicing on squirrels but they are hard to hit, something like the tanks ...will post pictures in officers club If I have any success

Requires modification to the mission I don't have time for the next few days.

If your rig is good you can fly the mission from your PC.

No.42_Awde wrote:

yes practice server would be awesome for me
navy can you make the server reset once all objects are destroyed?

I have already been practicing on squirrels but they are hard to hit, something like the tanks ...will post pictures in officers club If I have any success

Awde. That was swamp rats not squirrels.

Crap, we supposed to be killing guns. According to Butzell. Server mod when available please.

Guns can kill tanks which is good, but we need guns on the enemy. Think 5k might be a little high if all of the action is going to be low killing tanks and guns. Can the Pup lose 3km that fast, can the spad lose 5km fast enough to keep the bombers from getting shot up before hey engage? Need the close escorts right in tight with the bombers so that they can kill the enemy right off the bat, and so that they will have the benefit of the DH4's guns.

Bombers will kill tanks primary, then if enemy guns until forward ammo is expended. Will need high cover to watch for guns in the area, and vector attackers in. There are only 4 and we dont get to land them and refly, so be careful to use all odnance and ammo to best effect!

Space,

You now have 8 gun emplacements, 4 located at tank factory and 4 located at the plane factory.

These are located in the area of these locations not directly at the locations.

Have fun my bomber friend.

S!