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 Trench mapping - what we all need to know

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Shnoze_Shmon

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PostSubject: Trench mapping - what we all need to know   Thu May 30, 2013 1:15 pm

Pruned: 7/22/13 - SS


my message to Butzzell:
Quote :
S!

We have an odd situation with the trench mapping. We screwed up our first run so our fault. Then we ran it south and because our trench mapper lost his autopilot he backtracked and we got the no 5 photo twice. We got all the photos in the order of 6, 5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. I guess doubling up on the 5 eliminated our credit. Space said to bring this to your attention.

I goofed and didn't take pics myself, but I'm still asking around to see if someone else did.

His reply:

S!

Doing it twice is no problem. The check zone stays active so that if you break off and come back, you know where you left off. Check zone 6 is ok but there is a 7th. The final check zone will say "trench map pictures done". If you open the mission editor and look at either north or south, you will see the enemy lines icon and the first check zone. The very next check zone is the last check zone from the other direction. They are far apart so that if you are coming from the other direction, you will finish before hitting the first check zone in the other direction. While the mission directions say to fly between both icons, the actual distance is about 4ooo m less. The distance between check zone 6 and 7 is also about 4000 m. Basically, he stopped early. The distance between picture 6 and the Icon on the map that you are heading towards is about 8000 m. Almost a whole grid. A large enough distance that you should know from looking at your map that you have not made it to the end. Trying to cover that last 8000 m would have brought you over the last check zone after flying only 4000m.


zone 5 <---4000 m ---> zone 6 <----4000 m-----> zone 7 <---4000 m--> Enemy lines icon


Last edited by No.42_Shnoze_Shmon on Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Shnoze_Shmon

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PostSubject: Re: Trench mapping - what we all need to know   Thu May 30, 2013 6:17 pm

I noticed the JG1 server was still on last night's map and was rolling over to a new mission, so I jumped in to try the trench map. I watched my times to see just how long things take and how quickly the mission can be done.

I rolled while the green flare was still in the air.
At 6 minutes I was passing Villers Bretonneux bove 3000'.
I entered the mud where it meets that river that goes about halfway across the mud. Crossed to the other side and turned north above 5000'
At 14 minutes I received the picture 1 south to north message.
I followed the trench lines closest to the center of the mud so I didn't get any more messages until I realized I was close to the north end and moved to the trench lines just outside the mud.

8 minutes after receiving the first message I got picture 1 north to south.
Popped out of the bomb sight view did a 180 and then followed the trenches on the outside of the mud.
Got the following messages.
picture 2 north to south
picture 3 north to south
picture 4 north to south
picture 5 north to south
picture 3 south to north NOTE THIS!
picture 6 north to south
picture 2 south to north NOTE THIS!
Trench mapping done

Last message received was 17 minutes after the first. 2 passes in 17 minutes.

Here is a pic showing the finished message, the clock, and the map which showed where I landed.
[img][/img]

We can get this mission done in less than 30 minutes.

Here's what I'm thinking. We cant afford to miss this mission unless we get well ahead in points.
The trench map plane takes off while the flare is still in the air and heads strait for the starting point climbing to 5000'+. This plane proceeds with it's mission without regard.
The escort flight takes off immediately as well and has the responsibility of finding and escorting the trench plane. Takeoff is immediate and no waiting for any pilots not ready. They will have to coordinate a catch up.
A fast mission means a high chance of success.

I want a pilot in the trench plane who has practiced the mission between today and next Wednesday.

I want a pilot in the arty spot plane who has practiced the trench mission between today and next Wednesday. Flybert is well experienced at arty spot and I'd like to put him in the arty plane, but if he is unable to practice it, or cant make it, I need someone else. If the first trench mission goes badly the arty pilot will be the first backup.

It would be good to have another green flight pilot that's practiced the run as well just in case the assigned pilot has any problem being in the server on time.

It's actually a fun run so I'd encourage everyone to give it a go.


Now if we can get enough fighter pilots maybe we can actually stop some of their missions. Salute
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Shnoze_Shmon

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PostSubject: Re: Trench mapping - what we all need to know   Fri May 31, 2013 1:03 pm

I'm also thinking of freeing up more scouts by reducing the escorts for Trench and arty to 2 each.

Reasons:
They only need to keep a watch for enemy and tell the Brisfit when to run. For this 2 close in escorts should work fine.
With the trench map the flight only needs to be looking above and also forward between 3 and 9. If the enemy isn't in an intercept position he's not a threat.
Experience demonstrates if we get these missions done early we don't need to worry about having enemy contacts.



I think the reason why we don't see any contacts in their backfield, or along the front for over an hour is because they commit everything to our backfield and then we see some of them after they complete their initial mission.


Defending targets:
--The 4 building factory shops:
There is no way for us to know which one is active unless we catch them attacking it. So we wont defend these unless we happen to bump into them.

--The HQ recon:
In the last FIF we know they made this mission a heavily escorted one. The enemy recon simply has to fly over at a prescribed altitude and rtb. After finding the active ourselves we would have to patrol at that altitude. A higher escort could easily disrupt a defense enough for the recon to make 1 pass. I'm not particularly keen on defending this.

--Train:
Difficult to defend against a bomber, but the bomber could be made to pay the price afterwards. However, they probably use scouts to take it down. In the last game they damaged the train and made it stop, then later came back and finished it. Only the engine was damaged so it wasn't hit with a bomb. Problems: We have to find the train. Our scouts have to make sure they are not drawn into a turn fight over the train.
The train would be a low priority defense target.

--Convoy:
They still haven't found this one and since we would need to find it, that makes it a low defense priority. If we do happen to spot it, it would be worth covering to disrupt any enemy that might otherwise locate it. It's not likely they would figure out we were protecting something and keeping the frustration level of not having found that target is worth a lot.

--Arty spot:
We would have to cover both locations until they made an attempt. We would need to be over them early. We could find this a difficult one to defend.

--Bridge:
They like to hit this with a single, sneaky bomber. We would need to locate the active early and defend low. More than likely we would simply be making the bomber pay after getting the target and they would still have the target.

--Spy pickup:
We may be able to stop this one. I've flown the area and it looks like the likely attempts to land would be made either in the extreme north and south ends or along the rivers. They may fly both spy planes to ensure one completes the mission. We need only damage them to stop the mission.
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No.42_Space

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PostSubject: Re: Trench mapping - what we all need to know   Fri May 31, 2013 1:36 pm

No.42_Shnoze_Shmon wrote:

--The HQ recon:
In the last FIF we know they made this mission a heavily escorted one. The enemy recon simply has to fly over at a prescribed altitude and rtb. After finding the active ourselves we would have to patrol at that altitude. A higher escort could easily disrupt a defense enough for the recon to make 1 pass. I'm not particularly keen on defending this.


--Spy pickup:
We may be able to stop this one. I've flown the area and it looks like the likely attempts to land would be made either in the extreme north and south ends or along the rivers. They may fly both spy planes to ensure one completes the mission. We need only damage them to stop the mission.

Same is true of the Staging Area (HQ) recon- the recon plane has to get back to a friendly landing area and land safely, else the plates are toast.


The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to
safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.
--Sun Tzu
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WWGeezer



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PostSubject: Re: Trench mapping - what we all need to know   Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:13 am

The Map Maniac can't walk away from a map challenge.....see attached map and training mission....what I did

1. added labelled icons and aerostats at the center of each trigger area for the north and south trench map pathway
2. The aerostat has a visual range the same as the trigger so the shaded area on the map pretty much lines up with the trigger area
2. added line connecting the icons

Soooo....if you want to practice, leave map icons on and while you are looking thru the bombsite view, pull the map up to see if you are on track with the route.

This should allow you to get used to what the visual landmarks are for hitting the center of the targets at each trigger.

Keep in mind that there really are seven targets. One thru six tell you that you have taken a picture, seven says you have completed the trenchmap



www.wingwalkers.org/vault/wwgeezer/FIF_Map/FifSession2_gz3.zip

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Shnoze_Shmon

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PostSubject: Re: Trench mapping - what we all need to know   Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:33 am

Nice Geezer!

I determined the actual distance the balloons pop flairs at. And after flying the area the Central spy mission has to land in I'm confident about just where it can be done.

Both are indicated on this map.

[img][/img]
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WWGeezer



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PostSubject: Re: Trench mapping - what we all need to know   Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:51 am

What is your logic on what you marked as areas to land in vs not? Is it the terrain or somehow related to the Aerostat locations?
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Shnoze_Shmon

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PostSubject: Re: Trench mapping - what we all need to know   Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:01 am

WWGeezer wrote:
What is your logic on what you marked as areas to land in vs not? Is it the terrain or somehow related to the Aerostat locations?

It's the terrain. That area between the two white lines is very hilly. I had 2 failed landings with a Halb yesterday so it may be a difficult plane to land as well. I generally found that the river creates flat areas to land in. Unless a pilot is good at landing on a long narrow ridge these are the only choices. It wouldn't hurt to have some 2seater pilots investigate these areas further to see if we can reduce the areas we need to cover even more.

Check it out in a Brisfit. It shouldn't take long.
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WWGeezer



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PostSubject: Re: Trench mapping - what we all need to know   Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:07 pm

Well I don't know if I can do this in less than thirty minutes, took me more like 35.

Some interesting landmarks, if you start from the south, the first trench map target lines up exactly with the east west road from Warfusee.

What it means is if you line up on Warfusse and head do east you will trigger the first picture very early, if you then turn north and line up with where the funny little river hits the front you will hit number 2 without ever having to look in your bomb bay.

After that you pretty much need to do the legit trench map thing for 3, 4, 5 and 6

But after six, the last one is exactly where the wiggly river hits the front west of Warlencourt

If you want fast, than South to North is the way to go


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Shnoze_Shmon

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PostSubject: Re: Trench mapping - what we all need to know   Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:22 pm

My thoughts for the fighter flights. This is based upon 3 flights of 4 planes.

I'm not assigning these to specific flights yet so if a flight leader has a preference feel free to say so.

Due to the nature of the missions I will be splitting all the flights between the 2 scout airfields

Flight one, the two SE5s from the north field will cover the arty plane and the two from the south field will cover the trench plane. After the escort duties are over the flight will find our active bridge and defend it. If the bridge is lost reinforce one of the other flights.

Flight two will patrol possible enemy ingress points (North) in grids 23 charlie to 29 alpha, and (South) grid 17 alpha to charlie. They will patrol these areas up to 30 minutes from the game start flare but no later. They will then proceed to each of the 4 probable spy plane landing zones marked in orange on the previously posted map. One plane will patrol each area looking for a low flying or landed 2seater. If you see a 2seater it's almost certainly the spy plane. They have only 1 spy plane per game and it only needs to be damaged so an immediate attack under any conditions is warranted, but not ordered. However, the rest of the flight should be informed on contact. Your in friendly territory so any means of getting on the ground without a death keeps you in the game. Once the spy plane is dispatched the flight is free to conduct itself as needed.

Flight 3 will find our active HQ ASAP and patrol it at the altitude required for the recon photo.
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Shnoze_Shmon

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PostSubject: Re: Trench mapping - what we all need to know   Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:24 pm

No.42_Space wrote:
One thing to consider is that we did not get the trench mapping in the first 2 weeks, so the KNOW we are going to try it this and next, and will be positioned accordingly.

That is why I want the trench mapper rolling while the flare is in the air. And why it will be up to the escort to find the trench plane because there will be no delay in starting the mission. The enemy will have to be ahead of or above the trench plane to cause it to break off from mapping. If they come in slightly below or slightly ahead, such as the 2 o clock position, than 1 pass by the escort will be plenty to keep the trench plane safe. Even a high enemy slightly behind only needs to be turned off it's attack once. If an SE5 positions just behind and below and takes pot shots with an elevated Lewis gun, that would be enough to force the attacker out of range. So the escort needs to understand not to warn off the trench plane unless the enemy is in the cone of a real threat.

I've proven that the trench mapping "Pictures are done" message (7th picture message) can be obtained in 22 minutes after the flare. I don't think the enemy can be set up for intercept in this little time.
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