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 Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th

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Shnoze_Shmon

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PostSubject: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Thu May 23, 2013 8:04 pm

Pruned 8-2-13 -SS

Also left flight color discussion intact because this did result in our changing squad policy of the designation of Yellow Flight to Gold Flight.

If your name is below and your preferences are indicated properly, then simply indicate your attending.  

If not give order of assignment preference.

Preferences
WWWhiteAce - wherever needed
WWBayonet - wherever needed

SE5a
Rooster
Navy Jake (Bristol if needed due to manning requirements, bomber)
Skeeter Can fly Brisfit and would be most comfortable in a bomber.
Duff4r (Can do any)
Hawg
WWDubya
WWNavyGunner
Bandy
Shnoze (bomber)
WWsittingduck
Semiauto

Two Seaters
Lexx
Blindfaith

Recon
Flatspin Second preference: any other Brisfit role.
Space  bomber, arty, trench. Yes, can fly Se5a.

Bomber
Stubby14 Arty, Recon, Trench.

Arty
Flybert  bombing convoys or trains preferred

Trench
Zed  Bomber, recon, arty.
WWGeezer  Bomber, Recon, Arty... Fine flying se5a too.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Signed up
Shnoze Shmon
Zed
Flatspin
Duff4r
Space
Rooster
Lexx
NavyJake
Skeeter
Bandy
WWWhiteAce
Stubby
WWsittingduck
WWDubya
WWFlybert
WWGeezer
Semiauto
WWBlindfaith


Removing sign up posts once they are recorded here.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
The Plan


The backfield 2seater missions will be going without escort.  Space will lead the flight.

Arty spot and trench map planes will be integrated into red and blue flights.  They will carry no bombs and may carry reduced fuel load.

Red Flight will be based at Lealvillers (north fighter drome) and cover the Arty Spot.  The Arty spot plane will meet Red Flight over Lealvillers and Rooster will determine how the flight proceeds with conducting the mission.

Blue Flight will be based at Bretonneux (south fighter drome) and cover the Trench mapping.  The Trench mapping plane will meet Blue Flight over Bretonneux and NavyJake will determine how the flight proceeds with conducting the mission.

Once Arty and trench are done all SE5s will remain on our side of the lines attempting to thwart Hun 2seaters.  The pilots that conducted the arty and trench missions will grab new planes with bombs and switch to green flight.


Red Flight
1 Rooster
2 Skeeter
3 Bandy
4 Semiauto
Arty Spot WWFlybert

Blue Flight
1 NavyJake
2 Shnoze Shmon
3 Duff4r
4 WWsittingduck
5 WWDubya
Trench Map Zed

Green Flight
Recon1 Space
Recon2 Flatspin
Recon3 WWWhiteAce
Bomber1 Stubby
Bomber2 Lexx
Bomber3 Geezer
Bomber4 Blindfaith


Last edited by No.42_Shnoze_Shmon on Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:20 pm; edited 10 times in total
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WWGeezer



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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Fri May 24, 2013 8:56 pm

hey Schnooze....you mentioned last time we should assign a WW flight lead for Yellow group, sounds like Dub has volunteered....if you are in good shape with two seaters I would prefer to fly under Dub in Yellow group ( to see if I can last more than 15 minutes and rip my wings off, as a fighter)

If you need me elsewhere, no worries

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Shnoze_Shmon

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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Fri May 24, 2013 9:27 pm

Roger Geezer, I'll try to get you in an SE5.

Looks like a high demand for 2seaters this round, so encourage your bomber jocks to attend.
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WWDubya

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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Fri May 24, 2013 9:48 pm

In as Yel... err... GOLD lead. Big Grin

That squirrel deserves a gold plated medal. Salute
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Shnoze_Shmon

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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Fri May 24, 2013 11:40 pm

WWDubya wrote:
In as Yel... err... GOLD lead. Big Grin

Sigh!

He wants the precious metal name... Rolling Eyes

Then I suppose we should use Crimson and Cobalt...

but then we have a problem, do we use Mint, Moss, Lime, Teal, or Pistachio?

Dub I'm locking you in a room with Space and Stubby to discuss how much you like the term Yellow.
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No.42_Space

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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Sat May 25, 2013 12:05 am

Green is obviously Plutonium.


ALL HAIL the Great Shnoze! Salute


The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to
safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.
--Sun Tzu
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No.42_Zed

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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Sat May 25, 2013 8:27 am

No.42_Space wrote:
Green is obviously Plutonium.

Obviously Shnoze Shmon is the greatest Mission Commander we've ever had.


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No.42_Stubby

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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Sat May 25, 2013 9:08 am

No.42_Space wrote:
Green is obviously Plutonium.

How about Diamond? The girls best friend Laughing After Shnoze Shmon of course.

I sure could use more friends like that squirrel.



SSG MIARNG (RET)
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No.42_Flatspin

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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Sat May 25, 2013 9:17 am

Need less friends like this and more squirrels methinks...chicks love squirrels... I love you



Train the way you'll fight and fight the way you've trained; and above all -- remember the mission!
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No.42_Zed

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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Sat May 25, 2013 9:25 am

Green diamonds


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WWBayonet



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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Sat May 25, 2013 9:34 am

Emerald Flight!!!

On another note, RoF is having a 4th anniversary sale from 26-31 May. I'll be grabbing a few missing birds to fill my hangar.
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NavyJake

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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Sat May 25, 2013 2:32 pm

Sapphire Flight ready to launch

ROFL!
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Shnoze_Shmon

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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Sat May 25, 2013 5:52 pm

Aww you guys are embarrassing me. But thanks anyhow. Smile
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No.42_Space

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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Wed May 29, 2013 1:44 am

Ok, thought long and hard about this- heavy bombers should be in a tie-dyed flight. No one would mess with us... Yokers, I gotta talk with you about a new skin, brutha.. (gotta report to HQ first.. something about painting my Bristol yellow.. says I'm not allowed!)


The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to
safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.
--Sun Tzu
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No.42_Duff4r
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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Wed May 29, 2013 9:33 am

No.42_Space wrote:
Ok, thought long and hard about this- heavy bombers should be in a tie-dyed flight. No one would mess with us... Yokers, I gotta talk with you about a new skin, brutha.. (gotta report to HQ first.. something about painting my Bristol yellow.. says I'm not allowed!)

Sad....so young! He developed a bad case of a thought to be extinct disease....The Yellow Plague! No.42_Squadron now has an immediate opening for a Green FL. We have created a......wait for it now!.....Space.

Cool

XO
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NavyJake

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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Thu May 30, 2013 8:03 am

AAR for most of Blue Flight.

1. Took off , 4 members of Blue Flight, NJ, SS, Duff4r, and WWNavygunner

2. Eventually found our Bristol (Zed), damn haze makes it a different game.

3. Climbed to 5-7K, escorted Bristol to trench mapping.

4. Made 2 trench mapping passes, got messages, 1-6 photos taken,

5. Returned to base, Bristol landed no completion.

6. From SS: I'm near my home drome thinking I'm forming up on a wingmate and I start to realize it's not an SE5. He dips down in a sharp turn and sure enough there are the crosses, it's a Pfalz. I make the call to my flight as I realize he's wheeling around on me. Nothing to do but drop the nose and run. Running, hollering, and firing flares I soon keep hearing "got you SS but don't see a bogey." Glance around, he's still behind... no wait that's an SE5... and another SE5... There we were all wondering where he went. The whole dang flight had flown right past him, and now he was a distant tail end charlie.
Then, almost in unison, we called out "There he is behind us!" Instantly, 4 SE5s wheel around and zero in on this lone Pfalz. I have to wonder if he didn't do something involuntary. Those were some evasive maneuvers obviously born of desperation. It's little wonder a collision resulted.
I can just imagine the "huh?" as he went from chasing one SE5 to chasing 4.

7. Duff4r collided with Pfalz, (remember to call ins and outs, wait for flight lead to release you to attack.) 4 on 1 collision was inevitable.

8. Bristol took off again

9. Blue flight minus 1 started escort to re do the trench mapping.

10. Red Flight was called in just before this as our balloon was shooting flares

11. Blue fight and Bristol jumped by a flight of Pfalzs

12. Big fur ball, Bristol shot down; Blue Lead ripped wings off, disconnected in disgust with self.

Observations:

1. Make radio comms concise

2. Don’t chase shinny objects

3. Don’t jump into a fight unless threatened, or order to.

4. Know mission, protect Bristol

5. Central definitely was doing the same thing as we were, they CAPed the trench mapping after the 1st half of mission time was over.

Results:

Failure, Bristol shot down, trench mapping incomplete, as of when I disconnected.
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No.42_Duff4r
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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Thu May 30, 2013 9:14 am

From my view.....

Since writing can be misinterpreted I mean no offense to anyone. My comments if critical are meant in a helpful and improving way for future missions. If anyone is upset in anyway after reading this then I wrote it wrong or YOU read it wrong!

1.) Poor planning - The hook up between Trench Mapper and Blue flight was a Laurel & Hardy routine. This will NEVER happen again! Consequently, the time spent finding each other, in the end, cost the success of the mission. No ones fault...FLs & MC, fix it please.

2.) Good job Zed, you knew the requirements to complete your mission and you told B-FL you were not complete, we remapped, still incomplete. I'm not sure why we RTB'd? I think, you as the Mapper should have requested/insisted on another pass. That said, didn't I hear you say you were only allowed 2 passes? My bad, as I don't know the rules. Regardless, I thought I heard 2 passes only then land reload and try it again? Is this correct? If that's NOT correct then why did we RTB? Wishful thinking?
a.) Worthless addendum and rant. Why do the pictures need be taken in order? That's bull! We're trying to fly full switch with arcade rules enforced by a very lacking SIM. NOTE** On the first pass Pic #1 was missed, ok mission incomplete, no worries. On the second pass Pic #5 was taken twice with all others successfully taken in order, and that fails the mission? Grrrr.....

3.) My Collision, what I saw. The Pfalz was higher than all of Blue Flight. Two member's of Blue flight went nose up. The Pfalz Rolled down and went nearly inverted as he slid past me at my 10 o'clock. He did not shoot. As he went past and under, I juked right first to avoid him then left attempting to roll into a split 'S' so as not to lose sight of him. My nose was barely below the horizon when the Pfalz, now pulling up, collided. I never saw him nor could I avoid him. I think it was the same for him. I don't think he fired a shot. Bad luck for both of us.

4.) Good wingman stuff. NavyGunner and I talked minimally and stayed together. I heard good comms between NJ and SS.

5.) Question, do we think the MC may be too tasked to fly a scout mission? Not just talking about SS or this mission but those past and in the future. Maybe the MC should be a gunner in a 2-Seater?

5.a.) Be sure to give and receive orders completely and correctly....

Mission Commander, this is Red Flight Lead requesting orders.


Red Flight lead this is Mission Commander - Proceed to grid 25 Alpha dot 7 and determine if enemy Artey is active.


Mission Command, this is Red Flight Lead, understood, proceed to grid 25-alpha dot 7 and determine if enemy Artey is active.

Mission Command correct and out!

6.) Whispers, it is imperative that all FLs check and double check their settings prior to mission nights. On a good day TS3 is balky. I have been suffering with my push-to-talk becoming glitchy. It seems that if I launch TS3 first and then TrackIR, I don't have the problem. Yes, I checked and No, I do not have an interference in button assignments. I would love to see a switch to Ventrilo, it's 10 times better for Flight Sims than TS3, but that won't happen either.

It was a lack luster mission for me...too much circling, too much confusion, and the collision...sucked!



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The Meaning of Life: Someone to Love, Something to Do, and Something to look forward To!
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NavyJake

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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Thu May 30, 2013 9:37 am

Duff4r,

Quote :
5.) Question, do we think the MC may be too tasked to fly a scout mission? Not just talking about SS or this mission but those past and in the future. Maybe the MC should be a gunner in a 2-Seater?


thumbs up

Quote :
6.) Whispers, it is imperative that all FLs check and double check their settings prior to mission nights. On a good day TS3 is balky. I have been suffering with my push-to-talk becoming glitchy. It seems that if I launch TS3 first and then TrackIR, I don't have the problem. Yes, I checked and No, I do not have an interference in button assignments. I would love to see a switch to Ventrilo, it's 10 times better for Flight Sims than TS3, but that won't happen either.


I did have issues last night 1st time, and I checked them, while in game, beats the heck out of me...

Quote :
2.) Good job Zed, you knew the requirements to complete your mission and you told B-FL you were not complete, we remapped, still incomplete. I'm not sure why we RTB'd? I think, you as the Mapper should have requested/insisted on another pass. That said, didn't I hear you say you were only allowed 2 passes? My bad, as I don't know the rules. Regardless, I thought I heard 2 passes only then land reload and try it again? Is this correct? If that's NOT correct then why did we RTB? Wishful thinking?

I think escorted aircraft should be lead and direct the scouts during this phase of the flight, until scouts are released after a successful mission.

Good news is we can only get better...

Salute

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No.42_Flatspin

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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Thu May 30, 2013 10:18 am

Haven't got time to look all this over right now but:

Regarding escorts: I thought escorted plane calls the shots was the standard. Of course, lately we haven't had many escorted aircraft.

Anyway, we've done this in the past, we should continue to do this — make it SOP.

2 passes max? What shit is this? Gas and amt of film should be the only things restricting a recon mission. Not counting caught bullets.

I also think MC should prob be in a second seat so he can manage the battle or even back at HQ on the wireless...



Train the way you'll fight and fight the way you've trained; and above all -- remember the mission!


Last edited by No.42_Flatspin on Thu May 30, 2013 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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No.42_Space

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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Thu May 30, 2013 10:23 am

No.42_Duff4r wrote:
From my view.....

a.) Worthless addendum and rant. Why do the pictures need be taken in order? That's bull! We're trying to fly full switch with arcade rules enforced by a very lacking SIM. NOTE** On the first pass Pic #1 was missed, ok mission incomplete, no worries. On the second pass Pic #5 was taken twice with all others successfully taken in order, and that fails the mission? Grrrr.....

That is what it takes for that mission type to work. We can fly bogus dogfight server stuff all day, or we can go outside the box and have some fun. The game is not perfect (has any ever been?) and sometimes it requires a suspension of disbelief. In this case the server requires that all waypoints be in order. As someone that actually uses aerial photography, let me assure you there is nothing worse than 2 pics whose features do not line up along or near an edge. When that happens your only choice is to look at everything in every pic and try to find something in common or give up.

Quote :
5.) Question, do we think the MC may be too tasked to fly a scout mission? Not just talking about SS or this mission but those past and in the future. Maybe the MC should be a gunner in a 2-Seater?

Why? The primary and secondary missions were laid out in the STAR briefing. After that it is up to the FL to lead his flight and make necessary decisions. By extension, "should all FLs only be gunners in back seats?" I believe the answer is no, even though FLs have much more to do than the MC once hostilities begin.

And yes, escorted FL should be directing the flight.


The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to
safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.
--Sun Tzu
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Shnoze_Shmon

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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Thu May 30, 2013 2:08 pm

S!
(Not upset)

Didn't know the escorted plane was supposed to be FL. When I had seen that happen I thought my directions were misunderstood. Cleared up now.

Zed got lost/confused in the haze. Could happen to any pilot. There was no issue with how the meeting of the flight was set up. It was simple and strait forward. Red flight had the same instructions and it went off without a hitch.

See separate thread for trench mapping. We were all wrong.

MC in a back seat or sitting out directing. That's a nice thing to have, but
1 - Were already shorthanded
2 - Who wants to volunteer when it means sitting out the campaign?
3 - The plan for this game was very autonomous. No problem with being asked for a decision, but FLs should recognize when instructions allow for decision making and have formed an idea of what they think is best. That should be included in any questions. The difference between the MC having good SA and being over tasked can be as little as an unknown contact.
Yes, at times I was over tasked. Haze made it a lot harder to keep sight of and not collide with flight members. I generally flew with the flight on my left and my map was on the far right of my second screen, which is on the right. I was trying to anticipate and make the comm calls for Navy, to minimize his, since he was having unexpected issues. Sometimes I was unsure if my comms were properly understood.
4 - It would be nice to make use of someone who is knocked out of the game early. They could hop around on TS and get the current situation of each flight and keep everyone informed without stepping on busy comms. And also help with non urgent comms between flights.
When I've done this I start with something like: "Green Flight this is SS I'm in your flight sit-rep."
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NavyJake

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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Thu May 30, 2013 2:58 pm

SS,

1. True
2. True
3. Part of this will go better by letting the 2 seaters be lead for the escorted portion.
4. I thought about doing this but was pretty upset at myself for pulling my wings off, that won't happen again.

Salute
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No.42_Zed

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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Thu May 30, 2013 3:10 pm

Ok my two cents.

Flight hookup was my fault. After checking the bridge on the way went too far south and lost myself in the haze. Mea culpa

First run we did not see photo 1. We seemed to have started far enough south to pickup 1. When I got to six I continued along the trench line at least 4000 m. No completion so we figured that missing 1 threw us off Turned around and went south starting with picture 6. At picture 5 flying through heavy cloud lost level stabs (my trac ir kicked out about 10 minutes before) and aircraft pitched into a spin while I was in bombsight view ( the ONLY way to follow the outside trench in haze) recovered but was far off to east and no way of knowing whether I had missed any trench. Flew back north about 1000 m and reoriented on trench got photo 5 again. Completed to photo 1 and easily flew another 6000 m along trench line. We decided to see if completion was done and I landed at nearest fighter base with perfect landing. Furball ensued above me. Restarted ac and took off with escort. Got jumped in the middle of mud and some lucky shots took out my engine. Dead stick landed on our side of the mud but plane flipped in middle of farmers field killing me.

The two test runs I had done on this trench mapping had both given me completions shortly after 6. I had assumed that the mission would be the same as the test. Mae culpa

I would like the opportunity to do this again, the Bristol though a wonderful plane, does not have a flight direction lever in the bombsight causing you to get out of level stabs reorient on the compass from the cockpit check in bombsight readjust and get into level stabs in a matter of seconds.

If I am relegated to another task I fully understand.


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NavyJake

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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Thu May 30, 2013 3:58 pm

Zed,

I think, at least I mean, in charge of join up, ingress and egress of flight, scouts support the 2 seater, 2 seater makes calls as to route, when the flight departs for home etc. This means the mission, scouts cover 2 seater of course.

Salute
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No.42_Duff4r
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PostSubject: Re: Sign Up and battle plan for FIF May 29th   Thu May 30, 2013 4:26 pm

Ok, too much to quote...

1.) Zed you will not be relegated to a different assignment, unless you request it.

2.) No, NavyJake, the missed hook up was no ones fault directly. Let's learn from it and move on.

3.) Scouts should hook up with the escorted aircraft but it should be easy and smooth. Scouts are faster and more agile we hook up above the field shortly after package takeoff. Package calls and runs his mission proceeding to altitude and then target ASAP. Package never looks for escorts. Package informs Scout lead of course, altitude deviations, and mission status. If engaged, escort informs package of necessary deviations and combat status.

4.) SS, points taken and considered. I didn't consider a backseat out of the mission and conflict but...maybe so.

5.) Space, understood but we did do it in order, just had two #5 pics. I would think that the extra #5 could be tossed. That's not the case so that's why I added it as 'A worthless Rant'. T'was a bit frustrating last night is all!
Edit: Now we find out there was 7 points so all is understood. Missed #1 & #7 the first pass and #7 the second. JG1's explanation is sufficient for me. Thanks for asking JG1, SS.



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The Meaning of Life: Someone to Love, Something to Do, and Something to look forward To!


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