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 Mission design discussion.

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JG1_Butzzell



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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:07 pm

S!

The targets on the map. What type and how many of each type and what do you mean all the time? All factories all the time? All bridges all the time? or just certain bridges but the same ones all the time?


Planes - how a bout early 1917 Pups, tripes, N- 17, Alb D2, Alb D3. Bombers. Re8 and early Halb? Not historical but probably more a closer match. or DFW and Breuget? still not historical but a closer match.
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No.42_Space

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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:35 pm

DH4 is available March 1917. RE8 is not a match with anything, especially if you want them fully gassed. The Halb CL2 on the other hand, is just deadly and much later. The Bristol comes out at the same time as the D3; Bristol and DFW are actually a pretty good match.

Timeline-wise, Apr 17 has N17, Spad7, Pup, RE8, Tripe and DH4 for the allieds; D2 and DFW are available for the central. June sees the addition of Breguet and Camel; July the D3 and the Bristol; August the Gotha and Halberstadt; Sept the Pfalz D3 and the Spad 13.


The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to
safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.
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JG1_Butzzell



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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:43 pm


S!

Think of three sessions: Early, middle, late. Each session X number of missions.

Early- SPAD7, Pup, Tripe, N-17 Alb D2 Alb D3 - All these planes were on the field in January 1917.

Middle Spad 7, SE5, Camel Alb D3 Alb D5

Late - SPAD 13, SE5, Camel Alb D3 Alb D5, Pfalz D3a, Fokker Dr1


I was thinking only 2 types per side as a representative of a squadron. Germans don't really get a choice till last session. Not much to do about it.

Would that qualify as a progressive plane set?


Your list of bombers looks pretty good. I would probably keep the DFW as main bomber in all sessions. The Halb was really a front line ground attack plane. We were also talking somewhere around 50 or 60 percent fuel for some of the planes.

S!
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semiauto



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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:51 am

I just wanted to point one thing out with the aircraft timeline. The Alb D3 should not be included in an early plane set if you're going for January 1917, at least on the Flying Dutchman's timeline it's not introduced until July 1917.

According to this timeline, here are the planes available in January 1917:

Entente:
DH2
N17
Spad 7 150 HP
Spad 7 180 HP
Pup
RE8

Central:
Alb DII
Alb DII Late
DFW
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semiauto



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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:55 am

Nevermind. If you actually check those dates it says that the Albatros D.III entered service in December 1916. I'm not sure why the timeline is so far off unless they're talking about the particular version that's in RoF but the only difference is the placement of the radiator which was moved in June of that year so really it should be allowed earlier.
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No.42_Space

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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:43 pm

Yeah running into that here as well. I am checking all planes vs Wiki to see when they actually went into service.


The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to
safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.
--Sun Tzu
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JG1_Butzzell



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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:48 pm

S!

When you get into timelines, there are general that you can find almost anywhere, especially on the RoF forums.

Then you can get into the picky ones about prototypes and early models. Likewise Plane X was on the front on June1 1st. But it was not flown in combat till July 17 because it took that long to equipe the entire squadron and get the pilots and mechanics familiar with it.


Lots of ways to manipulate time lines. Better to agree in general and have good matches.

And yes to Semiato, the Alb we have in ROF is a mid Jully plane. They have been asking for an earlier ALB D3 for quite some time. Lower horse power and a diferent rudder. Unfortunately they would have to model a new engine and FM so........ no early Alb D3.

S!
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JG1_Butzzell



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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:40 pm

S! All

Looking at first part of 1917. These planes all look pretty close.

Per team, 2 scout bases, each with a diferent type of plane. A single 2 seater base with only one type of plane.

Chineese menue

pick 1 from collum A and 2 from collum B


A

DFW
Bristol
Breguet


B

Alb D2
Alb D3
N-17
Pup
Tripe

Entente obviously have a choice where CP team is kinda locked in.

Not much German food on Chineese menue
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No.42_Flatspin

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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:18 pm

British, British-British.

My vote.

I could be talked into the Baguette, but not the Nieuport.


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No.42_Space

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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:27 pm

CP also has twice the guns, inline engines and speed, so not quite equal yet.

Early 1917 also saw the Spad7/180 and the DH4, and the Spad13 and Alb D5 if you count May as early.


The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to
safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.
--Sun Tzu
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NavyJake

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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:13 pm

My vote,

Me likee, Nieuport, Pup, Tri, but will defer to the Boss!

S!
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semiauto



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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:21 pm

As far as scouts I would pick the tripe and pup but if there is the option for a spad 7 it should replace one of those I would think.
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JG1_Butzzell



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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:20 pm

S!

All french with N- 17 and SPAD7?

Personnally , I feel the Tripe, Pup / Alb D2, D3 is one of the better match up. Some manouverability advantage Brit, gun advantage Germ. No really big discrepancies in climb or speed. Tastes great and is less filling.

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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:09 pm

Gotta be Bristol v DFW in bombers though, that match sounds like a scream! (besides I don't have the Bagellette yet)

I would think on on one hand Pup and Spad7 to give the Allieds a little tactical speed, but on the other Sopwith v Albatros is a fighter classic. Be up to our fighters I guess.


The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to
safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.
--Sun Tzu
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JG1_Butzzell



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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:45 pm




Sorry I left DH4 off the menue

The DH4 caries almost the same bomb load as the DFW.

It was available in early 1917


Does it seam that the DH4 in game is a little slow?
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No.42_Space

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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:05 am

It does, a little.

So not liking the matchup between the D3 and whatever. No sense listing the D2 with the D3 available, so that choice things is a bit of a false dichotomy. I have always thought the D3 to be the best german fighter that is, with the exception of the D7 late in the game. None of the 1916 fighters will do anything to it, with the plywood body against a single pop-gun.

How about your D3, D5 and DFW vs Spad13, Pup and DH4? Early 1917 should actually give us the Camel and the Se5a also, but those came out in June so those are right on the early/late line.


The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to
safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.
--Sun Tzu
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No.42_Stubby

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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:55 am

Space I like your lineup. Of course I do like the DH4. Sorry about last night Mr. Butzzell. My gunner seemed to like to throw rounds at you. I am not knowing why. Mad


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JG1_Butzzell



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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:59 pm

S!

If you break 1917 into three parts it could work out as:

Early, N-17, Pups, Tripes, Spad 7 vs Alb D2 , Alb D3

Middle SE5a, Camel, SPAD 13 , vs Alb D3, Alb D5

Late SE5, Camel , SPAD 13, vs Alb D3, Alb D5, Fokker Dr.1, Pfalz D3.

These are just the palnes available. We do not want to have all of them in a game at the same time. Alb D2 vs tripes and Pups is actually a very good match. Sorry we were Flying D3s last night. The goal of having 2 types of planes, is to have 2 bases per team, with only one type of plane available at each base. Forces are split between bases. That gives some variety of planes in the air. Hopefully it helps smooth out any one plane's advantage as being a dominant or controling factor.

Some of the problem with selecting planes is perception. The grass is always greener on the other side.

If the SPAD 13 was as good in RL as it is in RoF, the war would have been over by December 1917. They were unreliable with over 50% grounded at almost all times. Took a while to get the engine configuration correct. That is why the Neiuport variants lasted so long. N-24 anyone? Probably not. Like the N-28, you won't see many people fly it. About eaqual to an alb D3 or maybe better, it had just 1 gun.
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No.42_Flatspin

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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:21 pm

JG1_Butzzell wrote:
S!

If you break 1917 into three parts it could work out as:

Early, N-17, Pups, Tripes, Spad 7 vs Alb D2 , Alb D3

Middle SE5a, Camel, SPAD 13 , vs Alb D3, Alb D5

Late SE5, Camel , SPAD 13, vs Alb D3, Alb D5, Fokker Dr.1, Pfalz D3.

These are just the palnes available. We do not want to have all of them in a game at the same time. Alb D2 vs tripes and Pups is actually a very good match. Sorry we were Flying D3s last night. The goal of having 2 types of planes, is to have 2 bases per team, with only one type of plane available at each base. Forces are split between bases. That gives some variety of planes in the air. Hopefully it helps smooth out any one plane's advantage as being a dominant or controling factor.

Yes. Can we start with Early? Can we start soon?

Quote :
If the SPAD 13 was as good in RL as it is in RoF, the war would have been over by December 1917.

Well, the air war didn't have that much impact on the progress of the war, but I understand what you're getting at.



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No.42_Space

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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:50 pm

N-24?? My version does not have that, and I have been wondering where it was. (Old RB habits hard to break.)

The thing I am seeing this: If we are only allowed 1 life per match and no airframe number limits, we will see almost all of the Central force fighters in Alb D3, the rest being a few in Dr1 in point-defense for the late missions. Those breakdowns are ok, but will central go Alb D5 and Dr1?


Something like

Early: Pups, Spad 7 vs Alb D2 , Alb D3

Middle: Camel, SPAD 13, vs Alb D3, Alb D5

Late SE5, Camel vs Alb D5, Fokker Dr.1


The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to
safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.
--Sun Tzu
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JG1_Butzzell



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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:51 pm

S!

Early and middle look ok,

For late I am not sure whether Fokker Dr.1 and Pfalz D3 or Pfalz D3 and Alb D5.


Will have to ask.


Can worry about that after we get through early and middle.

Basically commanders get 2 airdromes. Each one has a diferent plane. Half the team at one drome and half at the other. No switching back and forth. None of that 9 Alb D3s and 1 Fokker Dr1 stuff.

2 seaters at a 3rd drome.
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No.42_Flatspin

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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:35 pm

Good Space. Good Butzzell.

Now all we need to work out is the fuel question...yes?

Chomping at the bit here...


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JG1_Butzzell



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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:54 pm

S!

First please remember that while you can land and get a second plane, the missions are really designed to take quite some time. Recon and bomber missions start to finish, are about 45 minutes depending on the target. Designed to be a little less than an hour so that if the plane gets killed, and you have an extra pilot, it can be attempted again if desired.

Now , having said all that,, ready to haggle?

50 pesos senor
20 pesos
It is a bargain at 70 pesos
25 pesos
I am insulted
30 pesos
Sold!!, to the Gringo that doesn't know I got it at Walmart for 10 pesos.

Ok, pick a number.
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No.42_Space

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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:26 am

42


The art of war is of vital importance to the State. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to
safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.
--Sun Tzu
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No.42_Trout

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PostSubject: Re: Mission design discussion.   Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:27 am

No.42_Space wrote:
42

That's why you're my hero. Rimshot
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